An Interview with Len smally 

Len Smally was the Manager of The Meadows Community Association from 1998 to 2015. The following interview was conducted by Jo Evans and Tom Bondur on September 15, 2023.

TB:

We are talking with Len Smally, Manager of The Meadows Community Association (MCA) from 1998 to 2015. You were Manager for seventeen years. You served under eight MCA presidents− Al Gutzmer, Kirk Jordan, Ernie Fortin, Tony Sawyer, Ginny Coveney, Bob Friedlander, Bill Grubb, and John Spillane.

You started as Manager on June 22, 1998, but your experience working with The Meadows community extends back to your high school days. Your father, Don Smally, and his company, Smally, Wellford and Nalven (SWN), were the civil engineers retained by Taylor Woodrow to plan and develop The Meadows. You worked as a surveyor during the 1970’s when the area was still farmland.

LS:

Yes. The Meadows was a big cow pasture with some low swampy areas, lakes, and stands of oaks. I was involved in surveying boundaries, association properties, lakes, roads, and lots, and then inspecting water, sewer, roads, and drainage as they were constructed. We laid out the buildings, but they were constructed by Taylor Woodrow and their subcontractors.

I remember Roger Postlethwaite, Taylor Woodrow’s chief planner, laying out The Meadows with SWN engineers in a cubicle at my dad’s office. Larry Lippert was the engineer for the drainage system of The Meadows, including the lakes. The lakes serve as water treatment for runoff as well as visual amenities for residents and golfers.

Mark Gollnick also spent years doing engineering on Meadows’ projects. Both worked for my Dad for many years. Larry and Mark graduated from Sarasota High School. Mark went to the Colorado School of Mines and Larry went to Georgia Tech.

Ed Johnson was a job superintendent on many of the buildings here in The Meadows. He became a DeSoto County Commissioner later in life. A decorated Marine, Ed served in combat in the class of ‘66 Viet Nam. While I served on a destroyer, occasionally getting shot at, Ed was in much more dangerous close arms combat. We stay in touch today.

TB:

The Meadows Oral History Project is trying to collect information and stories about the early days of the community to coincide with that celebration. We are trying to preserve the collective memory of the community− the shared experiences, values, and personalities that contributed to making The Meadows such a great place to live.

JE:

Many people are new to the community and want to know more about its history.

LS:

It is a great place. It's a great place to be. I think it says that on the banner.

JE:

Yes. I remember when we were building our home in 1990, when you called into Taylor Woodrow, there was someone who greeted you saying, “It’s a beautiful day in The Meadows.” She had a great voice. That's the way they answered the phone.

TB:

What are some of your best memories?

LS:

I loved working on the survey crew laying out water, sewer, and drainage. I lost track of The Meadows after I went off to Texas and Louisville.

[Len graduated from Sarasota High School in 1968. After a stint in the US Navy, he studied at the University of South Florida where he graduated with a civil engineering degree in 1976. During summers and between semesters, he worked in The Meadows for SWN. He worked on several construction projects in Texas and Kentucky before returning to Sarasota to work again for SWN in 1978.]

When I got back in 1978, SWN was still active in The Meadows. I worked with SWN for a while, but then I went to Longboat Key. I worked at Longboat Key as Director of Public Works, unofficially the City Engineer, for eleven years from 1987 to 1998. During that time, I totally lost track of what was happening in The Meadows.

JE:

Tell us more about how your father got involved with Taylor Woodrow?

LS:

George Dietz, an attorney [Williams, Parker, Harrison, Dietz & Getzen law firm], brought Frank Taylor into the office to meet my dad. Dan Bailey, another Sarasota High School grad, was a young lawyer there and worked for Taylor Woodrow. In fact, he is still at Williams Parker and would be good to talk to about the early days.

TB:

Your father mentions in his book, Sarasota and Me, that Bill Best of Best Realty and George Dietz brought Frank Taylor and David Nash [David Nash was Taylor Woodrow’s local project manager] into the SWN offices to discuss properties they were considering for development. Your father mentions that Frank Taylor said he never bought land until an engineer looked at the property and recommended it. He says SWN recommended elimination of all properties under consideration except the Newburn Ranch owned by Arvida Corporation, a large real estate and development company. That property became The Meadows.

JE:

There were two different parcels. It wasn't one parcel.

TB:

According to the book, there was an initial purchase of 1200 acres. Later, they added another 450 acres.

Large developments like The Meadows were considered Developments of Regional Impact (DRI). This designation meant that water management districts, regional planning councils, state and federal pollution control agencies, and local governments were all part of the approval process.

The developers had to create plans for arterial roads, flood control, schools, hospitals, libraries, fire stations, wastewater treatment, and commercial facilities. It was a massive undertaking. It was the first DRI in the area and became the template for other developments that followed.

JE:

Did you ever you meet Lord and Lady Taylor? I also knew their daughter.

LS:

Oh, yeah. I met him in the office a few times. He was a nice guy. Lady Taylor also was nice to me.

JE:

Yes. They were very congenial. They used to be very visible at the club. They mingled with everyone.

LS:

Yes. First, he was Sir and then he was Lord. [Frank Taylor was knighted by Queen Elizabeth in 1974; later invested as Lord Taylor, Baron of Hadfield in 1982.]

TB:

He was from common beginnings. His titles were bestowed upon him. His parents owned a small fruit shop in the village of Hadfield in Derbyshire, England. He started building houses at 16 in Blackpool. His uncle, Jack Woodrow, lent his name to the enterprise to help him get a business loan from a local bank.

You remember what The Meadows looked like when it was just agricultural land.

LS:

Yes. It was pasture land. There were flat areas and stands of oaks. The stables were there. Greenwood Stables. You had to access the stables from 47th Street. You went out 42nd Street to Hauri Road, then you jog up to 47th Street where the fruit stand [Jessica’s Organic Farm] is. The entry road to the stables was down from there, going towards Harold Avenue.

JE:

The Meadows still has a little piece of land up near Hauri Road. The people that live around there don't want us to develop it; they don't want anything up there.

LS:

Yeah. That's where they had hogs for sale, right?

JE:

Yes. When I first came here to look at a house, Taylor Woodrow took me up on Highlands Oaks Circle. There was a pig farm there. You could hear the pigs. Depending on the wind, you could smell them.

LS:

I remember Children’s Haven on DeSoto Road. It’s now called something else− The Haven. [The Haven offers programs and services for adults and children with disabilities.] My father did lots of gratis engineering work there and was on the Board Emeritus. He used my brother and me to survey when we were in high school.

You couldn't get to Honore Avenue. It didn't exist. You went straight over DeSoto all the way to the end. There was a dirt road and a pasture with black and white cows like Jersey cows. Milk cows, not cattle. We used to go out there and look at the cows when we were done working.

JE:

You and I worked together a long time, didn’t we, when I was on the MCA Board and Maintenance Committee? You probably think it was forever with me coming around all the time asking for money. He would say, Get out of here! You want to spend my money!

We used volunteers a lot to control expenses.

LS:

Yeah. We did.

JE:

We used to get in the truck and go out all over The Meadows.

LS:

Some of the contractors who worked in The Meadows would have some good anecdotes and stories about what they found when they started digging. You need to talk to Bob Cunningham. He came to SWN in 1978. He is a licensed surveyor in charge of the surveying department to this day at Stantec. He was the one who sent me out on jobs, He would have some good stories about The Meadows in the old days. He was one of the last SWN employees who worked in The Meadows.

My father and his partners sold SWN to Wilson Miller. Wilson Miller was a big statewide firm headquartered in Naples. Wilson Miller later sold to Stantec, an international firm.

TB: 

When we were talking to Louise Mitchell and Jo [Evans], they remember the 17th Street entrance being an old dirt road. You must remember that too.

LS:

Yeah, sure. Well, first 17th Street ended at the canal just west of The Meadows entrance. There was no bridge. Taylor Woodrow built the bridge as a requirement for the project among many other things.  They did a lot construction in the area.

They built the Meadowood wastewater treatment system. That was turned over to the county after so many years. I remember working over there.

They donated a site for a school that was supposed to become part of the subdivision. It was in the regional plan. Somehow the county decided it was okay to sell it off for development and the school was built elsewhere.

I remember being on the double-decker bus. They brought it over from England. They used it to show prospective buyers around The Meadows. I remember eating lunch at the club, then getting on the bus, and driving around The Meadows.

TB:

We have a photo of you on your first day of work at the old MCA building, shaking hands with Al Gutzmer, who was MCA president at the time. Tell us about your first days as general manager of the MCA.

LS:

Al Gutzmer was an engineer. What I remember about those days was that Al would come into my office at quitting time. We would talk for hours about The Meadows drainage system and other infrastructure.

TB:

In the old MCA office in the shopping village?

JE:

Yes. The old MCA office was in the wooden building next to the new construction on the west end of the shopping village.

LS:

Yeah. The last building on the right is somewhat new. It was built in the early 2000’s. For many years, the MCA office was the west building.

Peggy Haynes was the office manager. Peggy was there when I started. Later, after we moved to the new office building, I hired Judy Egan.  Judy was the first person I interviewed in the new building.

My first year was spent learning all the streets, buildings, and the entire drainage system. I hired Jim Vernon, who worked for my dad as a surveyor to work for one year. We surveyed all the lakes. We created a blueprint that mapped all the drains, pipes, and wells. We had to add some wells. We needed to fill some of the lakes that were low all the time and the original plan permitted the wells for that use. Mark Schaefer, who I hired after Jim Vernon, compiled a list of every inlet, every head wall.

Another good story that people would appreciate. Vince Sahli, a resident, came to me one day and said, “Do you know that people in the northeast portion of The Meadows are paying Sarasota County drainage fees and the land does not drain to Sarasota County? Those areas drain north to Cooper Creek in Manatee County.” They were paying taxes with no benefit.

We worked on it, found the dividing lines, and got the county to give everyone a tax rebate. There's a meandering line that goes out through half of Surrey and comes out at the north end. Everyone got huge tax rebates and never had to pay it again. That was a big deal. It's on Vince's plaque on the wall in the MCA building.

JE:

You also got us a lot of money back from Florida Power and Light. Remember that? Of course, it went to the MCA. That was a big amount of money. For many years, we were paying a lot.

LS:

Yeah, right. And we shouldn't have been. We had been maintaining their lights for them.

Do you remember the nine-foot alligator that got into the storm drain over in Ringwood Meadow? We couldn’t get him out. I finally got him out by putting a whole chicken where the drain went into the lake. He was in the lake the next day then we never saw him again.

JE:

The story made the national news in 2014. It went viral on the Internet. That was funny.

Len was a good manager, but he did not believe in spending money. You better prove what you want and why you wanted it.

LS:

I fought Jo and others over whether we should plant annuals.

Those are my early recollections. Then the whole business of moving. When we started that process, I had only been here three years.

The landscape maintenance company that had been working for Taylor Woodrow was charging us close to $200,000 per year. Mark Schaefer and I put together some specifications and we went out to bid. The first bid came in at $127,000. We saved a lot of money that way.

That’s partly how we were able to build the new MCA building without a loan. We ended up saving almost $100,000 a year.

The Meadows is like a private city. Coming from Longboat Key— deed restrictions and code enforcement are the same thing; one is public and one private. The Meadows has the same miles of roads as Longboat Key. The same road right-aways. Eleven-foot lanes with two-foot curbs. Sidewalks. We widened the sidewalks to make them multi-purpose paths for pedestrians and bikes. I had done that on Longboat Key.

We had a six-foot path here and we made it an eight-foot-wide, multi-purpose path. On Longboat Key, we had ten miles of five-foot sidewalks on Gulf of Mexico Drive. We made it eight feet.

JE:

We had a lot of fun but we got a lot of work done. Yeah, and not spending money. People took it seriously.

LS:

We saved a lot of money on landscaping, lakes, poles. We saved enormous amounts of money that were just being wasted. After 15 years, our assessments were up 17%. We had accomplished enormous amounts of stuff and the MCA building was built. In comparison, Laurel Oak assessments went up over 100%. So did the Hale Plantation in Gainesville.

The budget process was the same as Longboat Key. You get all your line items. You look at each one every year. Sit down with all the different committees and the budget chairs and knock it out.

JE:

And before you left, you finished a million-dollar road improvement here in The Meadows. You paved all the roads.

LS:

Well, it's been 10 years. How is it holding up? Might be time to pave again.

JE:

There are some problems with the road buckling on Highlands Bridge Road going up toward Scarborough Common. Down below the county canal between the golf course and Scarborough.

LS:

Oh, I know what you mean. There were some caverns under the road. We filled them with concrete one time best as we could. We just got a slurry of concrete and filled it up and that lasted for a while. But then the surface started cracking again because you can't get the concrete in perfectly. But I think we patched it ourselves. We did a lot of stuff with staff then.

We put in the digital sign in front of the MCA building. We first took bids. Randy Lohr, Kirby Rolfe, and I ended up putting it in ourselves. We ordered the sign from Houston and had it shipped here. We put it in for half what the bids were. That was in about 2008.

Our three-man maintenance crew− David Gindlesberger, Randy Lohr, and Kirby Rolfe− was the most talented, creative group since Thomas Edison’s crew at Menlo Park. They could fix almost anything.

TB:

What do you feel are your biggest accomplishments during your time as general manager of The Meadows Community Associations?

LS:

Building The Meadows Community Center. It was built from reserves and paid back with interest in less than three years. We saved over $100,00/year in rent that we were paying to the shopping village.

Managing the budget and keeping costs down. Costs increased 17-18% while other communities’ costs went up 100%.

Hiring quality staff. People with experience who can get the job done.

Maintaining the natural beauty of The Meadows. We opened new common areas for recreation and beautification. Developing the sports field area− including expansion of the basketball court from a half to a full court, a new playground, waterfall, Memorial Garden and Wall, dock and pier, pickle ball courts, and shell paths. Removal of Brazilian pepper trees from Marshfield Road north to Honore and over at Glebe Farm Lake. Putting in the Nature Trail with signage and bridges and restoring/relocating the Exercise Trail. The oak tree planting program.

Handling big jobs like road paving. Conversion of Longmeadow five-foot sidewalks to eight-foot multi-purpose paths.

Interconnection of lakes and lakefill was a major visual improvement for The Meadows Country Club (TMCC), condos, and homes. Interconnections of irrigation areas with large mains to enable emergency irrigation where needed. Negotiating an agreement with Sarasota County for 220,000 gallons of reclaimed water for the MCA lake near the sports field.

Implementing a traffic calming and reduction program for Longmeadow, including county-approved speed tables and signage such as 3-way stop signs. New, matching street signs for MCA streets.

Using common sense to avoid lawsuits. For example, the MCA was involved in an expensive lawsuit over drainage spilling into Chimney Creek when I got here. Engineers and attorneys were involved. All we had to do was clean out the swale for $2500. Keeping up a good, cooperative relationship with Benderson Development and Sarasota County was important.

The MCA is in a constant state of renewal and modernization. The acquisition of the TMCC was a necessary, but expensive step for the community. With 3,500 homes, The Meadows can absorb the cost. The Meadows is a successful community with a continuing need for renewal to compete with the newer neighborhoods.

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